Q: What is your understanding of communism?

 

A: Communism is a grand concept. Politically, the fundamental proposition of communists is "liberation." Liberation is a very broad term. In terms of social class, it advocates the elimination of social hierarchy and exploitation, reaching equal status, coexistence and co-development of people.

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Economically, communism advocates collective production and prosperity, which is a wonderful vision. However, a communist society cannot be built in a day, it must be realized step by step. Our human society has experienced forager society, slavery society, feudal society, and capitalist society. A communist society can only be built through capitalist society and socialist society. 

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(Q: 可以説説你對共產主義的理解嗎？

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A: 共產主義是一個宏大的命題。首先從政治上，共產主義者最基本的主張就是「解放」。解放的含義很廣泛。階級上的解放主張消滅階級和剝削關係，達成各人的平等共存、共同發展。

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經濟方面，共產主義就是共同生產、共同富裕，這是十分美好的願景。但是共產主義社會不是一天就能建成的，而是要一步一步實現的。我們的人類社會經歷了原始社會、奴隸制社會、封建社會、資本主義社會，要達到共產主義社會，必須由資本主義社會經過社會主義社會才能完成。)

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Q: In your description, communism seems to be an appealing concept. So why do you think foreign media often hold a negative view on communism?

 

​A: As far as I know, some Hong Kong media criticize the socialist system, not the grand concept of socialism. Regarding the socialist system, I believe the media criticizes the planned economy and commune system - aspects of socialism that appear to consolidate the central power. In fact, these aspects cannot fully represent socialism. Instead, we should first understand what socialists initially advocated.

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Marx has a clear description of socialist societies, which is the principle of "resource allocation according to labor effort". The productivity of our current society has not reached the peak yet, and we must avoid the situation where wealth and property are concentrated in the hands of a few people. Therefore, we should let the state as a large organization coordinate everyone’s production, so as to ensure that there will be no great wealth gap and exploitation. 

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There have been many variants in the development of the principle of socialism, especially in the Soviet Union. Lenin, the founder of the Soviet Union, was a great pioneer as he had constructed a society with many socialist characteristics. Lenin used to support the planned economy. Nevertheless, Lenin discovered many problems during the implementation of planned economy. He also met petitioned farmers and visited many grass-root citizens, finally reaching a famous conclusion in his later years. That is, “When the uphill road fails, we must bravely go downhill to find the way uphill again."

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Later, he implemented the "New Economic Policy", combining capitalist market and socialism to promote sustainable economic growth. Therefore, market economy and socialism are not incompatible; on the contrary, the two can be complementary. However, the policy was proposed in 1921, and Lenin died in 1925, so this policy had lasted for no more than four years.

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An important historical reason for many Western media to criticize the socialist system is because of Lenin's successor Stalin. I do not hold the same view on him as the Chinese official propaganda. In my opinion, Stalin's mistakes outweighed his contributions. He claimed to be Lenin’s student, but he did not inherit the political legacy left by Lenin. Soon after his succession, he stopped the "New Economic Policy" and replaced it with planned economy, which the Westerners were more familiar with. Planned economy was not a totalitarian and restrictive system when Marx proposed it. Objectively speaking, under Stalin's planned economy, people were starving. Can a system be good if the subjects are suffering? Doesn't Stalin's system go against the original intention of communism? Therefore, it is obvious that the nature of communism had been distorted under Stalin's rule.

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Stalin deviated from the scientific development path of socialism and communism taken by Marx and Lenin. However, he had a strong foreign influence, so socialist countries established after World War Two all imitated Stalin’s planned economy. This is very ridiculous - a good system, after being distorted, has been spread under its original name.

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(Q: 在你的形容裏，共產主義似是一個很好的想法。那麽，爲什麽外國媒體普遍對共產主義抱持負面評價？

 

A: 據我所知，一些香港媒體所抨擊的是社會主義的制度，而不是共產主義這個宏大的概念。對於社會主義社會的制度，不出意料的話，媒體的宣傳應該都是計劃經濟、公社制度這些顯得比較集權的方面。事實上這不能完全代表社會主義。我們應該首先了解社會主義最初倡導的是什麼。

 

馬克思對社會主義社會有一個高屋建瓴的描述就是“按勞分配”原則。我們現階段社會的生產力還不夠發達，卻又要避免財富和資產集中在少數人手裡的情況，所以就應該讓社會作為一個大機構統一調配每個人的生產生活，保證不會出現過大的貧富差異，乃至剝削關係。

 

在社會主義的發展過程中有許多的演變產物，尤其在蘇聯。蘇聯的建立者列寧對社會主義國家有很完整的建構，是一個偉大的開創者。列寧從早年直到建立社會主義國家時，都支持以計劃經濟為社會主義國家的經濟制度。但是列寧在計劃經濟的實行過程中發現了許多弊病，並接待了許多上訪的農民。他也親自到基層探訪，在晚年的時候得出了一個著名的結論，就是「當上坡路走不通時，我們要勇敢地走一段下坡路，來重新尋找上坡的途徑」。

 

隨後，他推出「新經濟政策」，主張運用市場與社會主義國家製度相結合來使國家的經濟持續發展。所以，社會主義制度與市場經濟是完全不相互排斥的；相反，二者可以十分融洽地結合在一起。但是列寧在1921年提出政策，1925年病逝，這個政策實際上持續了不超過4年。

 

許多西方媒體抨擊社會主義制度的一個重要歷史原因就是列寧的繼任者斯大林。我的看法和大陸的官方宣傳也因爲他而不同。在我看來，斯大林的歷史貢獻遠遠抵不過他在歷史上犯下的錯誤。他自稱是列寧的學生，但是他並沒有奉行好列寧留下來的政治遺產。在他繼任不久，「新經濟政策」就停止了，而取而代之的是西方語境更熟知的計劃經濟。計劃經濟在馬克思提出的時候並不是高壓高限制的一個制度。客觀地說，在斯大林那種的計劃經濟之下，人連飯都吃不飽，這能是好制度嗎？這難道不與共產主義的初衷違背嗎？所以可見共產主義的本質在斯大林的統治下被異化了。

 

斯大林偏離了馬克思和列寧的科學發展道路，但恰恰他有很強的影響力，導致二戰以後建立起的社會主義國家都紛紛效仿斯大林模式的計劃經濟體制。這就令人啼笑皆非——本質很好的制度被曲解和異化，竟然還打著好制度的旗號被傳播了。)

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Q: To what extent do you think China implemented socialism before and after reform and opening up?

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A: In fact, this question is invalid. No one has proposed a complete plan for the attainment of the socialist system. As the builders of history, we can only make rough plans in a relatively short period of time. Regardless of the differences before and after the reform and opening up, we cannot judge the degree of implementation of socialism by using quantitative standards such as “to what extent”.

 

I can only say, after experiencing some turmoil, our party and state leaders re-examined our own development path and decided to reform and open up. This in fact readopted Lenin's "new economic policy" and returned to the path of scientific development of socialism and communism. It has been more than 40 years since the reform and opening up. We can clearly see that our country has become more developed than the past, from a backward agrarian economy to the world's second largest economy.

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(Q: 你認爲中國在改革開放前後多大程度上奉行著社會主義？

 

A: 事實上，這個問題是一個偽命題。沒有人為社會主義制度提出完整的規劃。我們作為歷史的建造者只能在較短時期內做大致的規劃。改革開放前後不管有怎樣的不同，都沒有辦法用大小、多少這樣的量化標準來判斷社會主義制度的實行程度。

 

我只可以說，我們的國家經歷過一些歷史動亂以後，我們的黨和國家領導人重新審視我們自己的發展道路，決定改革開放。這事實上重拾了列寧的“新經濟政策”，回歸了科學發展道路。現在改革開放有40多年了，我們能明顯地看到我們的國家要比歷史書上面寫的發展了許多許多，從一個落後的農業國變成了現在的世界第二大經濟體。)

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Q: Do you think China is tilting towards capitalism because she has adopted the market economy and pursued the five macroeconomic objectives just like the 'capitalist' countries in the West?

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No. Capitalism and socialism are fundamentally different. In a capitalist society, class struggles and exploitation always exist. In a socialist society, however, class struggles and exploitation will be eliminated. At our current era, it is true that capitalist and socialist countries appear to be alike because both adopt market economy (capitalist feature) and social welfare (socialist feature). However, a capitalist state does not intend to reach a communist state. They adopt socialist policies just to pacify the proletariats and delay the occurrence of the proletariats' revolution. On the other hand, a socialist state adopt capitalist policies to develop the economy and productivity, in an attempt to transition into a communist state. A communist state, in Marx's own words, refers to a state where exploitation is eliminated, productivity is extremely high, resources are extremely rich, and moral standards of citizens are generally high.

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(Q: 中國近年跟西方資本主義國家無異, 採用市場經濟和追求五大宏觀經濟目標。你會因此認為中國正在倒向資本主義嗎？

 

A: 不會。資本主義和社會主義本質不同。在資本主義社會裡, 階級鬥爭和剝削永遠都會存在。然而, 在社會主義社會裡, 階級鬥爭和剝削則會被消除。的確如你所言,在我們現在所處的歷史時期,社會主義制度和資本主義制度十分相似。但是, 資本主義國家採用社會保障和市場干預等社會主義政策, 是為了緩和階級矛盾, 以及延緩無產階級革命, 而非建造共產主義社會。而社會主義國家採用資本主義政策則是為了發展經濟,以求得生產力更大的發展, 最後達成共產主義社會。共產主義社會在馬克思的定義裡, 有這樣幾個標準: 完全消滅階級和剝削、生產力極度發達、生產資料極大豐富、人民普遍道德素質極高.

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